pankaj_singal
05-31 06:48 PM
WOW... what a logic... what does Indian Govt. has to do with this money when this is taken out of my pay cheque.
When I take this money back to India I probably would end up paying some taxes on it... not sure what the logic is behind this... (again I do not undertsand the full details behind it).
When I take this money back to India I probably would end up paying some taxes on it... not sure what the logic is behind this... (again I do not undertsand the full details behind it).
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desi3933
07-29 12:28 PM
....
....
This does not mean that the CIS has closed out all of the pre-2006 cases pending in their inventory. Far from it. When the new fiscal year starts, Indian E2 is likely to retrogress back to late 2002 or early 2003. This is roughly the point reached by the CIS in processing their inventory of pending cases.
....
....
I agree with this comment. Starting Oct, EB2-Ind is likely to retrogress to 03/2003 to 06/2003.
__________________
Not a legal advice.
....
This does not mean that the CIS has closed out all of the pre-2006 cases pending in their inventory. Far from it. When the new fiscal year starts, Indian E2 is likely to retrogress back to late 2002 or early 2003. This is roughly the point reached by the CIS in processing their inventory of pending cases.
....
....
I agree with this comment. Starting Oct, EB2-Ind is likely to retrogress to 03/2003 to 06/2003.
__________________
Not a legal advice.
gdilla
05-25 01:09 PM
The logic being applied at the NotCanada website is perplexing. Yes, the Canadian immigration system can be improved, but people who qualify to get in think by stepping foot on the soil their lives will be all peachy are delusional. It would be like any of you EBs coming to the US with no job offer. How long would you survive? I doubt 4 weeks. You wouldn't be able to rent a place, get a credit card, or, duh, have a paycheck. Obviously you think US is easy because when you come here, you're already employed. Canada can improve immigration system by encouraging immigrants to look for jobs before carting their entire families over. But still, the burden is on the immigrant to use their common sense. Canada, nor any country, owes you a job of your liking. YOU have to take care of yourself. It's mind boggling that an educated doctor from another country doesn't ask one colleague, or research the internet, or apply for a job, before immigrating to a country on the otherside of the planet.
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snthampi
07-31 04:16 PM
Some morons also gave me red. U do not have guts to express yourself out and just want to give red dots . It is quite cynical. typical of their nature. They do not want to have fun. They do not want others to have fun.
I agree. For many people having fun is about making money. We can't change them. So, we need to just ignore and move on.
I agree. For many people having fun is about making money. We can't change them. So, we need to just ignore and move on.
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cloud 9
06-12 06:12 PM
dilip
With the level/kind of arguments that you are putting in your posts, I don't think you will be able to complete your MBA or will not survive working as a MBA. So, my suggestion is: save that 100,000 that you are planing to burn doing MBA. Use it for some other purpose.
You are not able to compete with the unskilled people even though you have more than 10 years experience, how you are going to compete with MBA's that graduate from top schools from USA and India with your phony accent. Dont waste your 100,000, use it for your child's education or maybe donate part of it to IV and someone from IV might help you in getting a JOB.
With the level/kind of arguments that you are putting in your posts, I don't think you will be able to complete your MBA or will not survive working as a MBA. So, my suggestion is: save that 100,000 that you are planing to burn doing MBA. Use it for some other purpose.
You are not able to compete with the unskilled people even though you have more than 10 years experience, how you are going to compete with MBA's that graduate from top schools from USA and India with your phony accent. Dont waste your 100,000, use it for your child's education or maybe donate part of it to IV and someone from IV might help you in getting a JOB.
add78
09-24 04:41 PM
IV has been discussing about the possibility of one for two solution (partial). The idea is to request congress to exempt EB applicants & their dependents from numerical limits of the Immigrant visas, if they buy a home. It is my belief that market sentiment is the most important thing in any financial market(s) and the housing prospects look pretty bleak. There are lot of members in the EB community that have NOT bought their own home, even though they could afford one because of the uncertainty with EB GC. IV's idea is to bridge the financial committees and judiciary committees in the House/Senate and see if corresponding Chairman/Ranking members are willing to listen. Things are moving so fast with the 700bn USD bail out plan and we will NOT have time to do things the normal way, through our counsel. We have to present this idea to the corresponding staff members of key members of congress (see list below) and see if this gets traction now or going forward.
Are there any influential members in either house that are also pro-EB that we are especially targeting? I mean since House and Senate is debating on the bailout plan now and with McCain going back to DC to reach some agreement, there will be different ideas that can be included in the bailout, if we can get our idea across a few influential and sympathetic Representatives, they might come up with some proposal that will include this. I am sure Core is working with our lobbyists on this so I urge everyone to please send out emails.
Are there any influential members in either house that are also pro-EB that we are especially targeting? I mean since House and Senate is debating on the bailout plan now and with McCain going back to DC to reach some agreement, there will be different ideas that can be included in the bailout, if we can get our idea across a few influential and sympathetic Representatives, they might come up with some proposal that will include this. I am sure Core is working with our lobbyists on this so I urge everyone to please send out emails.
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saileshdude
05-31 02:26 PM
It is very likely that these pre-adjudicated cases may be revisited for further processing in future for cases with more recent priority dates. This is just my opinion based on the fact of the predicted slow movement of EB-I priority dates in coming months and next fiscal year. Since so many AOS applicant have been pre-adjudicated , EVL RFE may be issued in future for cases who are pre-adjudicated now but their PD will only become current after 2, 3 or 4 years. This may be to verify that the applicant still has job offer at that time when visa becomes available. So I guess pre-adjudicating application, does it really make sense for later PDs? Any comments on this by other members?
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gimmeacard
07-30 05:41 PM
Travind I am not close to the family anymore I made the dude so uncomfortable he stopped calling me. Here are some avoidance techniques, but you need to be ballsy to pull them of and never exceed the limits of decency and you must have a sense of timing and humor to do these. I have used these techniques myself for avoidance
1) Stare at his wife or sister and constantly compliment their looks, cooking, chai etc
2) Make lots of sticky notes with their quotes in the meetings and stick it on their walls
3)Break your pencil or pen at the meeting and loudly say cuss words like "shit that is good"
4) Itch nervously when they approach you in any location they will leave you thinking you have some skin disease.
5) Cough without closing your mouth directly in front of their face
6) Wear ghetto clothes when you go to the usual locations they avoid you like the plague (sorry guys who wear kurta with jeans and leather chappals you are the most obvious target)
7) Borrow cd's, dvd's etc and never return them or their calls they are bound to be nice since even in the worst case they are still trying to sell to you.
There are more things to do but i'm guessing some other people will post their experiences , just one word of caution do not extend your torture because these people are human beings who have been proselytized by their diamonds etc that they dont realize and don't worry they will not learn from you.
1) Stare at his wife or sister and constantly compliment their looks, cooking, chai etc
I wont do that to my enimies, i wont even recommend anyone doing that no matter what- there are other ways but is this the best u could come with?
dont foget ur culture and decency/manners.
1) Stare at his wife or sister and constantly compliment their looks, cooking, chai etc
2) Make lots of sticky notes with their quotes in the meetings and stick it on their walls
3)Break your pencil or pen at the meeting and loudly say cuss words like "shit that is good"
4) Itch nervously when they approach you in any location they will leave you thinking you have some skin disease.
5) Cough without closing your mouth directly in front of their face
6) Wear ghetto clothes when you go to the usual locations they avoid you like the plague (sorry guys who wear kurta with jeans and leather chappals you are the most obvious target)
7) Borrow cd's, dvd's etc and never return them or their calls they are bound to be nice since even in the worst case they are still trying to sell to you.
There are more things to do but i'm guessing some other people will post their experiences , just one word of caution do not extend your torture because these people are human beings who have been proselytized by their diamonds etc that they dont realize and don't worry they will not learn from you.
1) Stare at his wife or sister and constantly compliment their looks, cooking, chai etc
I wont do that to my enimies, i wont even recommend anyone doing that no matter what- there are other ways but is this the best u could come with?
dont foget ur culture and decency/manners.
more...
ronhira
01-13 03:24 PM
Calm down Girl. relax. atleast you called me your friend. freinds dont fight. just take it easy and relax. take a nap, you will feel better.
Sorry if i said some thing wrong.
Your friend
MC
mc,
this guy is pulling u'r chains..... its not she.... its a he.....
u know who this guy is? surprise surprise ....... gcperm is back.... as plainspeak....
hey gcperm aka plainspeak..... long time.... where've u been? i missed u :rolleyes:
Sorry if i said some thing wrong.
Your friend
MC
mc,
this guy is pulling u'r chains..... its not she.... its a he.....
u know who this guy is? surprise surprise ....... gcperm is back.... as plainspeak....
hey gcperm aka plainspeak..... long time.... where've u been? i missed u :rolleyes:
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tikka
07-03 11:48 PM
http://digg.com/politics/Rep_Lofgren_Issues_Statement_on_Updated_Visa_Bulle tin - 229 DIGS
http://digg.com/politics/U_S_Withdraws_Offer_of_60_000_Job_Based_Visas_Ange ring_Immigration_Lawyer/who 40 DIGS
http://digg.com/politics/USCIS_Visa_scandal - 31 DIGS
please DIGG!!
http://digg.com/politics/U_S_Withdraws_Offer_of_60_000_Job_Based_Visas_Ange ring_Immigration_Lawyer/who 40 DIGS
http://digg.com/politics/USCIS_Visa_scandal - 31 DIGS
please DIGG!!
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PlainSpeak
01-13 01:40 PM
Let me see if I understand PlainSpeak's language:
1. IV core needs to put a lot of resources to lobby for the DV bill, knowing full well that this bill will go nowhere!
2. Raise a false sense of hope among the EB3 community, again, knowing full well that its going to be dashed - just so that IV gains the trust of EB3 (I am EB3, and they have my trust without your logic!)
3. An exercise to gain trust by misleading!:D
I wonder why IV core did not come up with this brilliant idea ;)
Mr willigetgc to start off with here are a few facts
1. IV core needs to put a lot of resources to lobby for the DV bill
IV Core need not put a lot of resources to lobby for DV bill if they feel it is not worth the time and effort. that is for IV Core to decide and the decision is theirs to make after all they know about advocacy and lobbying
1. knowing full well that this bill will go nowhere!
That is my personal opinion and also the opinion of a whole bunch of people on this forum who do not agree with me but do agrree to teh fact that it has been 4 years since any immigration friendly bill came to be debated in congress. What wil make DV bill any different. This wil also go the same way. I would be surpirsed if it even comes up for debate
2. Raise a false sense of hope among the EB3 community, again, knowing full well that its going to be dashed - just so that IV gains the trust of EB3
My friend willigetgc what do EB3 people have besides hope. If you look at the statistics i will get GC in 19 year sand you with a priority date of May 07 (20 - 25 years). No reason not to hope for something and if IV really believes in what i suggested (I am sure it will go through all possible refinements) that would be a signal of not just hope but also action on part of IV to do something about EB Retrogressed folks. Now i am not saying it will happen and i am also not saying it will. All i am saying is here is a chnace to do something different which is also right because iot is not part of teh IV charter that IV is working to get relief for retrogressed EB
(I am EB3, and they have my trust without your logic!)
And what a great thing it is that you being an EB3 with a priority date of 2007 are working with EB2 hand in hand to get something done. It is great that you have trust with IV. Without trust nothing works. What i say is i have trust in IV i do not have trust that what they advocate is good for EB3. Semantics you may say but please read the lines carefully my friend. I hope you will understand
1. IV core needs to put a lot of resources to lobby for the DV bill, knowing full well that this bill will go nowhere!
2. Raise a false sense of hope among the EB3 community, again, knowing full well that its going to be dashed - just so that IV gains the trust of EB3 (I am EB3, and they have my trust without your logic!)
3. An exercise to gain trust by misleading!:D
I wonder why IV core did not come up with this brilliant idea ;)
Mr willigetgc to start off with here are a few facts
1. IV core needs to put a lot of resources to lobby for the DV bill
IV Core need not put a lot of resources to lobby for DV bill if they feel it is not worth the time and effort. that is for IV Core to decide and the decision is theirs to make after all they know about advocacy and lobbying
1. knowing full well that this bill will go nowhere!
That is my personal opinion and also the opinion of a whole bunch of people on this forum who do not agree with me but do agrree to teh fact that it has been 4 years since any immigration friendly bill came to be debated in congress. What wil make DV bill any different. This wil also go the same way. I would be surpirsed if it even comes up for debate
2. Raise a false sense of hope among the EB3 community, again, knowing full well that its going to be dashed - just so that IV gains the trust of EB3
My friend willigetgc what do EB3 people have besides hope. If you look at the statistics i will get GC in 19 year sand you with a priority date of May 07 (20 - 25 years). No reason not to hope for something and if IV really believes in what i suggested (I am sure it will go through all possible refinements) that would be a signal of not just hope but also action on part of IV to do something about EB Retrogressed folks. Now i am not saying it will happen and i am also not saying it will. All i am saying is here is a chnace to do something different which is also right because iot is not part of teh IV charter that IV is working to get relief for retrogressed EB
(I am EB3, and they have my trust without your logic!)
And what a great thing it is that you being an EB3 with a priority date of 2007 are working with EB2 hand in hand to get something done. It is great that you have trust with IV. Without trust nothing works. What i say is i have trust in IV i do not have trust that what they advocate is good for EB3. Semantics you may say but please read the lines carefully my friend. I hope you will understand
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vdlrao
07-25 12:35 AM
Ever Since August Bullitien came out Ron has posted not to raise any hopes
I doubt it whether he knows about the USCIS has changed the spill overs to horizontal fall outs and due to that the number of visas added to EB2 India/China. The horizontal spill over is giving a greatest adventage to EB2 India and making it run to catch up CURRENT. I see in the link http://www.immigration-information.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5456&page=8 , in one post he is predicting " I expect to see substantial worldwide EB3 movement during the next fiscal year." . But its not true because the EB3 world wide wont have many visas as before from now on. The EB3 world wide will move based on the 7% quota but not more than that.
I doubt it whether he knows about the USCIS has changed the spill overs to horizontal fall outs and due to that the number of visas added to EB2 India/China. The horizontal spill over is giving a greatest adventage to EB2 India and making it run to catch up CURRENT. I see in the link http://www.immigration-information.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5456&page=8 , in one post he is predicting " I expect to see substantial worldwide EB3 movement during the next fiscal year." . But its not true because the EB3 world wide wont have many visas as before from now on. The EB3 world wide will move based on the 7% quota but not more than that.
more...
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jthomas
05-29 05:39 PM
can somebody summarise it and make a action plan
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gimmeacard
08-02 01:07 PM
so i got tricked this time, in checkout lane met some guy with his kid, started chatting casual nuthing on those bombay guy or other stuff which amway uses, finally he stated that he knows of some folks that have their business here in fremont,ca he is planning to see how they operate, i assumed business means some store related or so, since he didnt seem like an IT guy .
next day get a call, i ask him if its quickster, n he says u heard of it...why wife started laughing @ me, saying u got tricked this time, normally i wud recognise these guys in 1look
intresting 2 anway guys on the forum are always providing negative to my posts taking me to RED, to those giuys you suck, and will always suck! keep roaming in Walmart/Great Malls when u can use hte time to spend it with your family.
next day get a call, i ask him if its quickster, n he says u heard of it...why wife started laughing @ me, saying u got tricked this time, normally i wud recognise these guys in 1look
intresting 2 anway guys on the forum are always providing negative to my posts taking me to RED, to those giuys you suck, and will always suck! keep roaming in Walmart/Great Malls when u can use hte time to spend it with your family.
more...
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Macaca
07-04 01:01 PM
My point is not to discourage any one, but when we wirte to media, folks will investigate all before they publish to main stream. We need to be fair and should provide the correct information, else we might loose the coverage.
This is important. I am updating my original template and putting the name of the person who said it. That person should be able to stand up when needed!
Also, please look at all possible holes in my points. We need to be rock solid!
This is important. I am updating my original template and putting the name of the person who said it. That person should be able to stand up when needed!
Also, please look at all possible holes in my points. We need to be rock solid!
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sayantan76
09-23 12:41 PM
I think the $700 billion bail-out will just go down the drain and will be lost due to market speculation...stocks will spike but then will go back to its lows or even lower....and then, check-mate!
it's like a band-aid to a big wound.
The 700Bn or whatever the final number is not entirely a drain.....
the thing with all these exotic securities is not that they are completely worthless but that there is no market for these right now and hence are illiquid - so if someone had the ability to keep these securities for a long term (say 30 years - since most mortgages are for 30 years) on their balance sheet - they may not lose as much money as they would if they tried to liquidate these investments in the short term.
Financial Institutions typically borrow short term to invest in long term investments and keep renewing the short term borrowings - since the underlying investment has become illiquid - it has become difficult to raise financing against it. the govt, howver, can take a long term view and be patient....who knows.....in the end - the Govt may actually come out with positive cash flow at the end of all this mess. So, the bail-out plan may not be as bad an idea as media is portraying it to be.........in short-term - it does take US into further indebtedness.
I already have a GC - so this debate does not impact me personally - but this is against the basic principals of natural justice.......GC applicants were placed into certain EB categories based on job descriptions and qualifications and then within queues assigned priority dates based on certain logic and are currently being approved based on PD and country quotas..........all these rules were known and published prior to companies and people applying for these GCs.....
No matter what the incremental benefit is, I think its blatantly unfair (like it was blatantly unfair to push some people to labor backlog centers and approving people with later PDs first) to change the rules of engagement and prioritization midway through the process and give preference to someone based on an ability to invest certain $$s in an house.......buying a house is a commercial and lifestyle decision........should not be a precursor to a USCIS adjudication.......
keep the red dots coming folks!
it's like a band-aid to a big wound.
The 700Bn or whatever the final number is not entirely a drain.....
the thing with all these exotic securities is not that they are completely worthless but that there is no market for these right now and hence are illiquid - so if someone had the ability to keep these securities for a long term (say 30 years - since most mortgages are for 30 years) on their balance sheet - they may not lose as much money as they would if they tried to liquidate these investments in the short term.
Financial Institutions typically borrow short term to invest in long term investments and keep renewing the short term borrowings - since the underlying investment has become illiquid - it has become difficult to raise financing against it. the govt, howver, can take a long term view and be patient....who knows.....in the end - the Govt may actually come out with positive cash flow at the end of all this mess. So, the bail-out plan may not be as bad an idea as media is portraying it to be.........in short-term - it does take US into further indebtedness.
I already have a GC - so this debate does not impact me personally - but this is against the basic principals of natural justice.......GC applicants were placed into certain EB categories based on job descriptions and qualifications and then within queues assigned priority dates based on certain logic and are currently being approved based on PD and country quotas..........all these rules were known and published prior to companies and people applying for these GCs.....
No matter what the incremental benefit is, I think its blatantly unfair (like it was blatantly unfair to push some people to labor backlog centers and approving people with later PDs first) to change the rules of engagement and prioritization midway through the process and give preference to someone based on an ability to invest certain $$s in an house.......buying a house is a commercial and lifestyle decision........should not be a precursor to a USCIS adjudication.......
keep the red dots coming folks!
more...
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LC2002
03-19 09:23 PM
If anyone who is stuck in with labor gets oppurtunity must use it. Even people who are jealous are given this oppurtunity will be first to run with that.
Very well said Subst_labor. People like Janak are simply jealous that you had the offer. People like him always will think that you are cheating the system or something like that just because a company offered you a labor substitution. I think that one should not judge such cases, and I am actually happy for all of those who are fortunate enough to receive their green cards sooner because of third factors. Good luck with your Labor subst. I hope the company is OK.
G
Very well said Subst_labor. People like Janak are simply jealous that you had the offer. People like him always will think that you are cheating the system or something like that just because a company offered you a labor substitution. I think that one should not judge such cases, and I am actually happy for all of those who are fortunate enough to receive their green cards sooner because of third factors. Good luck with your Labor subst. I hope the company is OK.
G
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gbof
09-15 01:22 PM
Doing it in the lat quarter could cuase visa wastage especially this year where it is anticiapted that there will be lot of spill over numbers.
Now, with vast majority (if not almost all) of 07 petitions pre-adjudicated and waiting for visa #s for approvals, it is hard for uscis to wait up-to-end-of-the-year for spill over. Current economy only suggest fewer GC applicants in 09 and 2010
Now, with vast majority (if not almost all) of 07 petitions pre-adjudicated and waiting for visa #s for approvals, it is hard for uscis to wait up-to-end-of-the-year for spill over. Current economy only suggest fewer GC applicants in 09 and 2010
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tempgc
09-14 03:15 PM
PERM applicants in 2005 (7276 of this 40% are Indian and 60% from EB2 ) -> 1750 LCA
1100 LCA => 3850 GC
.
I got the below numbers from the PERM FDLC site for the applications filed in 2005 and approved in different years of 2005,6,7,8
2005 India 1353 (filed in 2005 and approved in 2005)
2006 India 3888 (filed in 2005 and approved in 2006)
2007 India 60 (filed in 2005 and approved in 2007)
2008 India 10 (filed in 2005 and approved in 2008)
Total 5311
5311 for both EB1-5 : So taking 50% for EB2I - 2655
GC : 2655*2.5 = 6637 ~ 6500 (considering lucky 2008 Aug-Sep approvals, 2009 Sept)
1100 LCA => 3850 GC
.
I got the below numbers from the PERM FDLC site for the applications filed in 2005 and approved in different years of 2005,6,7,8
2005 India 1353 (filed in 2005 and approved in 2005)
2006 India 3888 (filed in 2005 and approved in 2006)
2007 India 60 (filed in 2005 and approved in 2007)
2008 India 10 (filed in 2005 and approved in 2008)
Total 5311
5311 for both EB1-5 : So taking 50% for EB2I - 2655
GC : 2655*2.5 = 6637 ~ 6500 (considering lucky 2008 Aug-Sep approvals, 2009 Sept)
Rohan99
08-03 01:13 AM
After reading all these post I checked their website...what a BS products,:mad: I have never heard of it, looks like directly from some factory in China
Giving such a products to kids can be harmful. When we buy stuff from proper store atleast we know that quality is met or someone is watching/monitoring it (like Mcdonalds recent recall)
One of the things that I've observed about these 'IBO's is that most often they are underachievers in general. Mostly staying home over the weekends, hardly any communication skills, no good friends (no your IBO partners are not your friends), low confidence and plain arrogance. They are asked not to take NO for an answer. So anything that you say against them annoys the hell outta them. I know I should not be using such derogatory language against any person but I seriously feel this corporation is plaguing our society big time.
I have a co-worker who downs at least 5-6 cans of their flagship product 'XS Energy Drink' everyday. He hardly moves from his desk all day so why in the world would he need an energy drink for? One day, the rest of the team confronted him and asked him if he even knew what was in the energy drink. He quickly got angry and snapped back "VITAMINS!!!". We were like WTF? Since when did energy drinks started to have vitamins in them? Finally, I showed him the contents of the drink: #1 Taurine, #2 Caffeine. So it's nothing but fukking Red Bull. And we all know 'Red Bull gives you wings!'. Wish it gave you brains too.
Another co-worker asked him if it'd be OK to give that drink to his 5 yo when he thought that it was alright for him to gulp gallons of it. He snapped again saying "OF COURSE! In fact she drinks small quantities of it everyday." A 5 year old kid drinking Red Bull. Can you beat that? Just coz this idiot wants to earn more points. That is when I got seriously pissed!
Giving such a products to kids can be harmful. When we buy stuff from proper store atleast we know that quality is met or someone is watching/monitoring it (like Mcdonalds recent recall)
One of the things that I've observed about these 'IBO's is that most often they are underachievers in general. Mostly staying home over the weekends, hardly any communication skills, no good friends (no your IBO partners are not your friends), low confidence and plain arrogance. They are asked not to take NO for an answer. So anything that you say against them annoys the hell outta them. I know I should not be using such derogatory language against any person but I seriously feel this corporation is plaguing our society big time.
I have a co-worker who downs at least 5-6 cans of their flagship product 'XS Energy Drink' everyday. He hardly moves from his desk all day so why in the world would he need an energy drink for? One day, the rest of the team confronted him and asked him if he even knew what was in the energy drink. He quickly got angry and snapped back "VITAMINS!!!". We were like WTF? Since when did energy drinks started to have vitamins in them? Finally, I showed him the contents of the drink: #1 Taurine, #2 Caffeine. So it's nothing but fukking Red Bull. And we all know 'Red Bull gives you wings!'. Wish it gave you brains too.
Another co-worker asked him if it'd be OK to give that drink to his 5 yo when he thought that it was alright for him to gulp gallons of it. He snapped again saying "OF COURSE! In fact she drinks small quantities of it everyday." A 5 year old kid drinking Red Bull. Can you beat that? Just coz this idiot wants to earn more points. That is when I got seriously pissed!
Pineapple
12-14 02:16 PM
I agree with alterego.
There is another compelling argument against taking the lawsuit way, even if assuming there is a case to be made, and we have plenty of money. (The first is unclear, the second is a firm no, but let us assume anyway for the sake or argument)
One of the reasons why Roe v Wade, 34 years on, is still a controversial decision today is the fact that the US is probably unique in the world in the sense that a constitutionality argument was used to decide public policy.
In Europe, as in other parts of the world, abortion was considered as a health issue, and handled via legislation and health care guidelines.
But because it was a constitutionality issue in US, and enforced from the bench, a significant portion of the populace felt left out of the decision making process, which stimulated a simmering opposition and entrenched the main actors of the "culture wars", which persist to this day.
There is significant debate even among liberals whether Roe V Wade has helped or harmed the liberal cause, and if knowing what we know, there could have been another approach to achieve the same end.
In a nutshell, approaching the courts is a double edged sword. There may be some strategic gains in the short term, but the long term impact is unclear and unpredictable. A legislative approach might be slower and incremental, but it is less risky.
Think of lobbying as polite negotiation.
Think of Supreme court case as picking a fist fight, in which we are badly out numbered.
Once you have started a fist fight it is much harder to negotiate, especially from a loosing position.
This is exactly correct. It is not the question of right or wrong here. That is what gets folks so upset on this thread, they feel since their viewpoint s right then.......... Most neutral observers like mbartosik can see this as unjust and there may be many in the US as well, however certainly not the majority. However, there are many ways in which this could backfire. One example is the recently seen debate over illegal immigration and the turn in public sentiment. Truth be told, if someone did something wrong 12 yrs ago(crossed the fence), now is married to a US citizen and has 3 US children, what do you do with them? What about the 3yr old who was brought to the USA by their parents and knows no other system? Perhaps a few years ago joe public would have given them a pass, no more, the debate has become so nasty that positions have been hardened to the point that reason does not prevail. Another reason has something to do with the perceived sense of entitlement Americans sensed in the illegal immigrant community(of course fanned by Lou Dobbs and his ilk). These are complex issues and generally you will get a lot further appealing to someones sense of fairness than explaining how you are entitled to something and will take it from them if it is not given to you.
There is another compelling argument against taking the lawsuit way, even if assuming there is a case to be made, and we have plenty of money. (The first is unclear, the second is a firm no, but let us assume anyway for the sake or argument)
One of the reasons why Roe v Wade, 34 years on, is still a controversial decision today is the fact that the US is probably unique in the world in the sense that a constitutionality argument was used to decide public policy.
In Europe, as in other parts of the world, abortion was considered as a health issue, and handled via legislation and health care guidelines.
But because it was a constitutionality issue in US, and enforced from the bench, a significant portion of the populace felt left out of the decision making process, which stimulated a simmering opposition and entrenched the main actors of the "culture wars", which persist to this day.
There is significant debate even among liberals whether Roe V Wade has helped or harmed the liberal cause, and if knowing what we know, there could have been another approach to achieve the same end.
In a nutshell, approaching the courts is a double edged sword. There may be some strategic gains in the short term, but the long term impact is unclear and unpredictable. A legislative approach might be slower and incremental, but it is less risky.
Think of lobbying as polite negotiation.
Think of Supreme court case as picking a fist fight, in which we are badly out numbered.
Once you have started a fist fight it is much harder to negotiate, especially from a loosing position.
This is exactly correct. It is not the question of right or wrong here. That is what gets folks so upset on this thread, they feel since their viewpoint s right then.......... Most neutral observers like mbartosik can see this as unjust and there may be many in the US as well, however certainly not the majority. However, there are many ways in which this could backfire. One example is the recently seen debate over illegal immigration and the turn in public sentiment. Truth be told, if someone did something wrong 12 yrs ago(crossed the fence), now is married to a US citizen and has 3 US children, what do you do with them? What about the 3yr old who was brought to the USA by their parents and knows no other system? Perhaps a few years ago joe public would have given them a pass, no more, the debate has become so nasty that positions have been hardened to the point that reason does not prevail. Another reason has something to do with the perceived sense of entitlement Americans sensed in the illegal immigrant community(of course fanned by Lou Dobbs and his ilk). These are complex issues and generally you will get a lot further appealing to someones sense of fairness than explaining how you are entitled to something and will take it from them if it is not given to you.
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